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 Abt 1400 -
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| Name |
Etchingham, Elizabeth |
| Born |
Abt 1400 |
England  |
| Gender |
Female |
| Person ID |
I08061 |
My Genealogy |
| Last Modified |
16 May 2015 |
| Family |
Hoo, Thomas, b. Abt 1396, Of Luton Hoo, Bedfordshire, England , bur. 13 Feb 1455, All Saints, Herstmonceux, Sussex, England (Age ~ 59 years) |
| Children |
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| Family ID |
F02420 |
Group Sheet | Family Chart |
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| Notes |
- Gen MedievaL
THOMAS ECHINGHAM, Knt., of Etchingham, was born about 1404 (aged thirteen and more at father's death)> He was married for the first time to AGNES SHOYSWELL, daughter of John de Shoyswell, of Shoyswell, Sussex. He was married for the second time between 1415 and 1424 to MARGARET KNYVETT, childless widow of Robert de Teye, Knt., of Barsham, Suffolk (died 1415), and daughter of John Knyvett, Knt., of Mendlesham, Suffolk, by Joan, daughter fo John de Botetourt, Knt. SIT THOMAS ECHINGHAM died on 15 Oct.
1444 (will proved at Lambeth 28 Oct. 1444), and was buried at Etchingham. His widow was living in 1467. (Arch. Jour. 7:268 (1850). Echyngham (1850), pp. 13-14. Gen. (n.s.) 21:243-250 (1905). C.P. 1: 342 (1910). Paget (1977), p. 445.
Then there is C.P. VI 561-5 which I haven't seen but which apparently says "He [Thomas Hoo] married, 1stly, Elizabeth, daughter of Nicholas Wyhingham, of Whychingham, Norfolk." From SGM discussions last year I seem to remember that C.P. is wrong and this Elizabeth is the daughter of Sir William Echynham although I can't see a correction for C.P. on Chris Phillips' page. The relevant post was 7 Feb 2003 where I quoted from Thomas Echyngham's will that Rosie Bevan sent me where Thomas Echyngham refers to Elizabeth Lewkenor as his sister.
"Residuu oim bonoz meoz non legatoz decimis meis pimit plenarie psolutis Do & lego Margarete Uxori mei Thome Lewkenore militi Dne Elizabeth Lewkenore sorori mei Thome Echyngham filio meo Henrici priori priorat de CoumbewelleThome Hoo Rico Wakhurst Juniori & Johi Asheburnham quos constituo & ordino executores meos ad disponend & exequend presens testamentum meu & ultima voluntatem mea prout ei melius viderint expedire Et Johem ffortescu & Rogeru ffenys Milites quos constituo & ordino supuisores hui testameti & voluntatis mee predicte."
In terms of the descent, these sources say;
1. William Echyngham = Joan FitzAlan
2.(a) Thomas Echyngham = Margaret Knyvett
2.(b) Joan Echyngham = John Baynton
And by an unknown wife
2.(c) Elizabeth Echynham = (1) Thomas Hoo, (2) Thomas Lewkenor
Whereas if I have this right you are suggesting this is the descent;
1. William Echyngham = Alice Batisford
2.(a) Joan Echyngham = William Rikell
2.(b) Elizabeth Echynham = (1) Thomas Hoo, (2) Thomas Lewkenor
2.(c) Thomas Echynham
And by Joan FitzAlan
2.(c) Thomas Echynham = Margaret Knyvett
The first question has to be am I correctly representing your views?
Secondly, where is the Joan who married John Baynton?
Thirdly, I do not understand why the will of Joan Echyngham Brenchley
makes Elizabeth Echyngham Hoo Lewkenor the daughter of Alice Batisford
rather than Joan FitzAlan, could you explain this further please?
thanks
Louise
Sir William de11 ETCHINGHAM of Etchingham, Sussex (William de10, James de9, Richard de8, William de7, Simon de6, Simon de5, William de4, Simon fitz Drogo de3, Drogo de2, Reinbert1), born abt 1360; died 20 Mar 1412/13. He married (1) Alice BATISFORD (heiress), died abt. 1395, daughter of William BATISFORD of Buckholt, co. Sussex and Margery de PEPLESHAM; (2) aft 1395 Joan FITZALAN (ARUNDEL), born Est. 1370; died 1 Sep 1404, daughter of Sir John FITZALAN 1st Lord Arundel, Lord Maltravers and Eleanor MALTRAVERS de jure Baroness Maltravers.
Notes for Sir William de ETCHINGHAM of Etchingham, Sussex
RD 500, p 295.
Faris, pps 9, 127.
Marlyn Lewis, post to SGM dated 1997-3-23, Re: Echyngham.
Louise Staley, post to SGm dated 2003-2-7, ECHYNGHAM & HOO (was Elizabeth wife of William ECHYNGHAM).
Charlotte Smith, post to SGm dated 2004-5-22, Wm. Echyngham and wifeAlice Batisford.
Genealogic et Heraldica, Vol. 1, p 332.
H.S.P. 105:6 [1954] [1623 Vis. Wilts [Johes Bainton miles fils: et
haer temp: E.4 = Jana filia Willi Ichingham mil:]. Abel Lunt [1963],
pp 209-223.
D. E. Ball, The Stainbed Glass Windows of Nettlestead Church, (1908).
Children of Sir William de ETCHINGHAM of Etchingham, Sussex and Alice BATISFORD (heiress) were as follows:
+24iElizabeth12 ETCHINGHAM, born Est 1385. She married (1) Sir
Thomas HOO of Hoo; (2) Sir Thomas LEWKNOR.
25ii Joan12 ETCHINGHAM. She married Sir William RICKHILLL, died
1407.
Children of Sir William de ETCHINGHAM of Etchingham, Sussex and Joan FITZALAN (ARUNDEL) were as follows:
+26iSir Thomas12 ETCHINGHAM of Etchingham, born abt 1401; died 15 Oct 1444. He married (1) Agnes SHOYSWELL; (2) Margaret KNYVETT.
+27iiJoan12 ETCHINGHAM, born bef 1 Sep 1404; died bef 1456. She married Sir John BAYNTON of Falstone in Bishpston, co. Wilts, MP,
Sheriff of Wiltshire.
Abduction: An Alternative Form of Courtship?
by Julia Pope, M.A.
Presented at the International Medieval Congress, Kalamazoo. MI, May 2003
...I will turn now to the facts of the case itself. Richard Wakehurst the Elder, who had been a member of Parliament and Justice of the Peace, died in 1455. In his will he named Thomas Hoo and William Gaynesford as the supervisors who would ensure that the executors fulfilled their duties properly.[5] His only son, Richard the Younger, had predeceased him. Thus, Richard the Elder’s only heirs were his two granddaughters Margaret and Elizabeth, the children of his son Richard and daughter-in-law Agnes Gaynesford (a sister of William and John). Although their ages are not certain, they were still unmarried at the time of their grandfather’s death. They were probably quite young, most likely in their early teens. Their wardship apparently fell to their grandmother Elizabeth’s relatives.
Not long afterwards, a petition was sent to the chancellor by the girls’ grandmother Elizabeth, who was writing along with Thomas Etchingham, Thomas Hoo, and John and William Gaynesford, esqs.[6] This petition stated that her granddaughters had been placed under the care of Sir John Culpepper. Incidentally, in a detail apparently not mentioned in Elizabeth’s original petition, Sir John had, some time previously, married Agnes Gaynesford, the girls’ widowed mother.[7] Their joint tomb remains in the Lady Chapel at Goudherst, Kent, and it indicates that together they had six children.[8] Culpepper had, the petitioners claimed, “promysed on the faithe and trouthe of his bodye and as he was a gentylman” that no harm would come to the girls. The plaintiffs made serious accusations against John, along with his brothers Richard and Nicholas Culpepper and their brother-in-law Alexander Clifford, claiming that they “with force and armes, riotously agense the Kinges peas, arayed in the manner of warre…toke and caried away” the girls to Clifford’s home in Bobbing, Kent. At the time of their abduction, we learn, Margaret and Elizabeth made “grete and pittious lamentacion and weping.” Elizabeth and her co-petitioners ended by claiming that the two young women were still being detained against their wills in London at the home of one John Gibson.
The various families involved here, all members of the local gentry, were heavily connected through several marriages.[9] There is strong evidence that Etchingham and Hoo (whose father was married to a woman named Elizabeth Etchingham) were relatives of the girls’ grandmother Elizabeth (whose maiden name was also Etchingham), although the exact nature of their relationship remains unclear.[10] The Gaynesford family was doubly married into the Wakehurst family, and thus could also be expected to have a strong interest in the matters at issue.
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