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 Abt 1370 -
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| Name |
Lewkenore, |
| Born |
Abt 1370 |
Of Sussex, England  |
| Gender |
Male |
| Person ID |
I05152 |
My Genealogy |
| Last Modified |
29 May 2015 |
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| Notes |
- Hi Douglas, Ronny, Barrie and Henry:
"The Sussex Archaeological Collections Vol III p 92 has the parents of Sir Thomas Leknor (who m Philippa Dalyngrudge) as Sir Roger Leknor (Knight of the Shire 4th Hen IV (1404), ob 10 Edw IV., Inq p m 13 Edw IV) by Elizabeth _da of Sir John Carew, of Fulford_.
This work is based partly on the visitation of 1634 as reproduced in Harl. MS., No 1562, and adds that the Visitation in Harl. MS No 1406 is a hasty and bad copy of that visitation.
If correct this must then be a different Elizabeth Carew to that in Ronny's message
Henry Sutliff wrote,
This may probably has been addressed in CP XIV, but FWIW CP VI:564 calls the first wife of Thomas Hoo who d. 13 Feb 1454/5, Elizabeth, daughter of Nicholas Wychingham, of Wychingham, Norfolk rather than Elizabeth Echingham. However
CP VI:565 shows that Eleanor, daughter of said Thomas, married firstly Thomas Echingham who d.s.p. So it is no wonder there is confusion. You are not alone!
There are no corrections to Hoo in Vol XIV
BTW:-
>From a secondary source (guide to Bodiam Castle) only gives the one wife of Sir Thomas Lewknor but gives his son Sir Roger Lewknor of Dedisham (-1478) by Philippa Dalyngrigge as m1 Eleanor dau of Lord Camoys and m2 Isabel dau of Roger _Etchingham_. CP Vol II p 508 note h) confirms part of this, that Eleanor sister and co-heir of Hugh de Camoys 2nd Lord C m Roger Lewknor - She was aged over 18 at ipm 5 Hen VI of Hugh.
regards, Adrian
Adrian (Surrey, UK) AChanning@CompuServe.Com
From: "Kevan L. Barton"
Subject: RE: Elizabeth Carew
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:47:47 -0400
In-Reply-To: <010c01c0fcf8$c05a3480$89c4fc9e@ELNsssbo>
Folks,
Okay, I'm going to throw more mud on the waters relative to the parentage of Elizabeth Carew. By the way, Rosie, is this associated with the Goodere/Frowyke/Dalyngrudge research you've been doing? Anyway here goes.
"700 Years of the Beville Family" (I won't qualify this source)
rummages that Sir Nicholas Carew and Lucy, d. of Sir Richard Willoughby, had Nicholas Carew who married (1) Isabel Delamere (and had Thomas who died young and was buried with his mother), and (2) Mercy (Mary) Delamere; Margaret Carew wife of Turbevyle; and Elizabeth Carew wife of Thomas Lewknor. Nicholas II had by Mercy (Mary) Delamere an Isabella (d.1434), wife of (1) Robert Buckton and, (2)Brian Harrick; Nicholas Carew husband of
Sir Robert Fiennes; and Thomas husband of Agnes, dau. of Thomas Hayton of Ewell, Surrey.
It continues "In the 11th generation, the eldest son and heir of the
foregoing sir Nicholas Carew was another Nicholas. He married first to Isabelle Delamere, by whom one son, Thomas, was born. After the death of Isabelle, Nicholas married her sister Mercy (or Mary), another daughter of Stephen Delamere. The son Thomas died young, and was buried along with his mother.
. [provides description of brass of Nicholas and Isabelle, but adds no
additional detail]
..This Nicholas Carew and his second wife had several children as is shown on the chart. he carried on in positions which had been held by his father and was sheriff of surrey in 1391-2; knight of the shire in Parliament from 1393-98, and again in 1417. At his death, September 4, 1432, sir Nicholas was buried with his first wife." The sources provided are
Berry's Pedigrees of Surrey Families; Members of parliament, Vol.
1:248,251-256 and 290; Vict Hist. surrey, Vol. 1:435.
Nicholas' will is dated 1432 (p.c.c. - 16 Luffernam.)"
Maybe this doesn't help, but here's a few more another:
Sussex Archaeological Collections (1850), Vol III, p. 92-101,
in an article titled "Pedigree of the Lewknor Family," by William Durrant Cooper, states that Sir Roger Lewknor, Knight of the Shire, 4th hen, IV (1404), ob. 10 Edw. IV. IPM 13 Edw IV., married Elizabeth, da. of Sir John Carew, of Fulford.
Berry's Sussex County Genealogies, p.130, provides Sir Thomas Lewknor, knight of the Shire, 2 Henry IV as the husband of Elizabeth, da. of Sir John Carew, of Fulford.
The Visitations of Sussex, 1530 (HS Vol LIII)does not add anything to clear the mess up, but it does provide the connection between Sr Roger Lewknor knight 31 H.6 (1453, oooh, look out for these dates!) and Elizabeth d. of ... Carew.
Are you sure we arn't talking about two different matches?
Thomas Lewknor and Elizabeth Carew (da. of John of Fulford); and Roger Lewknor and Elizabeth Carew (da. of Nicholas Carew)
Someone with access to other sources (i.e. a list of the Knights of the Shire) might provide some insight to build a timeline that could reflect two successive generations. By the way, the same visitations as above mentions Roger's father as Sir Thomas lewknor knight 30 E. 3, 1356, husband of Joan d. and heire of Sr John Doyle. The spread between 1356 and 1453 would be too hard to handle for just two generations. That is, if the dates are correct.
Anyway, there's a bit to chew on. Cheers, Kevan
My original question about the identity of Elizabeth Carew, wife of Roger Lewknor brought forth a number of versions. I am adding another one which seems to me entirely plausible and well researched.
From William Bayley, Account of the House of D'Oyly, 1845.p.95
ROGER LEWKNER of Bradhurst, co Sussex; who married Margaret, daughter of Sir John Carew of Molesford, co Berks [Lewknor ped. Add MS 5523 fol. 17 and Harl MS 6164 fol.23b] (Or, three lions passant in pale sable) and died 1401 2 Hen IV, a young man; his nuncuperative will being proved Feb 1401-2 in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury. His IPM was not however until 13 Hen IV
when it was found that he had died seized of all his father's estates in Sussex, and that his son and heir Thomas was then aet 19 [Esch 13 Hen IV no.28 ; Cott MS Faust C x] [That makes him born 1394]
SIR THOMAS LEWKNOR, aforesaid of Bradhurst, co Sussex & co who had previously in 5th Hen IV been found heir, through his grandmother Joane D'Oyly to the extensive estates of the Tregoze
family at Goring, co Sussex, and elsewhere in that county, on the death of John Tregoze of Goring, son of Sir Henry Tregoze, Knt : on which occasion the jury returned that "Thomas Lewknor was the cousin and heir of the deceased (being the son of Roger, the son of Joan, the daughter of Margaret D'Oyly, sister of Sir Henry Tregoze) and that the said Thomas was 12 years of age. [Esch 5 Hen IV John Tregoze]. Sir Thomas thus acquired many numerous estates in Sussex ; moved his seat to Goring ; was knight of the shire for
Sussex in 1 Hen VI (1423) and was thrice married. His first wife was
Elizabeth, daughter of his maternal kinsman and guardian Nicholas Carew of Beddington, co. Surrey (ancestor of the Baronets Carew of Beddington) by Mary his wife. She died s.p. Sept 1410 and was buried in Beddington church [Manning's Surrey, II 523-9]. He married secondly Philippa, relict of Sir Richard Berners, daughter and, by death s.p. of her brother Richard Dalyngrigge, sole heiress of Walter Dalyngrigge, son of Sir Roger Dalyngrigge of Bodiam Castle, co. Sussex, and cousin and heiress of Sir John Dalyngrigge, Knt.
[Bayley goes on to say that Thomas Lewknor's third wife was Catherine Pelham, but on my copy he has realised his mistake and crossed it out. In his handwriting he has added "this relates to his grandson" and "his third wife was Elizabeth Echingham"]
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